Dear students,
here we are: time flies and the beginning of the 2009 "Law and the Humanities" course isn't that far-off anymore. We remind you that it is compulsory, to take the exam at the end of the semester, to take part in the blog. That means that you will be asked to leave your comments or to ask questions, and to sign them.
Prof. David Skeel (University of Pennsylvania Law School) will open the course on March 11th (first week: from Wed. to Fri.: 11th-13th March; second week: 18th-20th March). You will find very soon on this blog the complete list of speakers and, from the beginning of March, you will also find useful information on the course program, on the speakers' c.v., on the suggested readings, etc. In the meanwhile, if you want, you can start reading something about the Law and the Humanities movement in general, just to understand what it is all about:
J.M. Balkin / S. Lavinson, Law and the Humanities: An Uneasy Relationship, in "Yale Law Journal of Law and the Humanities", 18 (2006), pp. 155-186 (On HeinOnline).
As for most of the articles we will suggest you during the whole second semester, you can find it on the databases you can access from the computers of our University (you can't access them from your pc at home), especially Jstor and HeinOnline.
1) Go to: http://host.uniroma3.it/biblioteche/
2) Click on "risorse elettroniche"
3) Click on "banche dati" and you will find HeinOnline and Jstor
.
here we are: time flies and the beginning of the 2009 "Law and the Humanities" course isn't that far-off anymore. We remind you that it is compulsory, to take the exam at the end of the semester, to take part in the blog. That means that you will be asked to leave your comments or to ask questions, and to sign them.
Prof. David Skeel (University of Pennsylvania Law School) will open the course on March 11th (first week: from Wed. to Fri.: 11th-13th March; second week: 18th-20th March). You will find very soon on this blog the complete list of speakers and, from the beginning of March, you will also find useful information on the course program, on the speakers' c.v., on the suggested readings, etc. In the meanwhile, if you want, you can start reading something about the Law and the Humanities movement in general, just to understand what it is all about:
J.M. Balkin / S. Lavinson, Law and the Humanities: An Uneasy Relationship, in "Yale Law Journal of Law and the Humanities", 18 (2006), pp. 155-186 (On HeinOnline).
As for most of the articles we will suggest you during the whole second semester, you can find it on the databases you can access from the computers of our University (you can't access them from your pc at home), especially Jstor and HeinOnline.
1) Go to: http://host.uniroma3.it/biblioteche/
2) Click on "risorse elettroniche"
3) Click on "banche dati" and you will find HeinOnline and Jstor
.
48 commenti:
Hey there!
Today was the first lesson and I really loved the way that prof. Conte and prof. Skeel handled the class.
The thing that I liked the most has been the "international mood" that the two teachers transmitted.
I've understood the meaning of "fresh air"!!
Ther is one question that I'd like to ask:
Mr. Skeel spoke about the judicial opinion.
I know that each State in the USA has it's own constitution and laws, how the judicial opinion can considered as "poem" for the entire country.
I'm sorry for the stupid question, but I've been allouded!!!
See you tomorrow and have a nice evening.
G.Casini
Good evening to all.
I followed the lecture with great interest, and I must say that the union of the right to other fields of culture, especially American, is something that fascinates me very much.I will Try to follow the entire period of the course, and try to open, although I think to be somewhat 'shy.
I love to stay in contact also with people who do not think like me, or people of other cultures .. it's nice to extend their personal horizons.
America has always been thus: the judgments of the court shall supersede the code regulation which does not exist.
What really impresses, is that, as in Italy, in the past, were born the current education law (f.e. Chiovenda), which however were derived from knowledge of other rights (such as the knowledge of civil and Roman law, developed new areas of legal knowledge), in a totally different system, from another part of the world, the legal knowledge is coming from other forms of knowledge.
This explains, what is incredible for us Italians, all the american who want to study law in their country, must first be a graduate in classical disciplines, and after this, in law.
I can not wait to know, during class, why the other areas of culture have generated, and generate the law..
See you tomorrow.
take care
A. Festucci
Hi everybody!
When professor Skeel read the 'Ode on a Grecian Urn" finding paradoxes and contrasts, then giving a comparison with contrasting aspects of judicial opinions, it was a GREAT example of connection between Law and Humanities, giving that Keat's poem is not only Literature but also an idea of Figurative arts (as describing the urn).
I've to say I feel really curious about this course.
G.Luciani
Hey there!
I completely agree with my colegues, I think this course is not only a way to analyze a "no-academic" aspect of law, but also an oportunity to experience for the first time a different and critical approach to the exams and to the lessons trough a non-conventional way as well!!
The analysis of the method's evolution, the passage from the humanistic approach to the scientific one really interested me today, in particular what expecially involve me is the sociological and political profile that let this change happen!
See you tomorrow !
E.Hernandez
Hi everybody,I've found very interesting the first lesson of L & H course. I like the way Prof. Conte and Prof. Skeel have introduced the subject, with a critical approach, dialectic and funny at the same time!Prof. Skeel has well summarised this movement's basis, that gives an humanistic reading of right.Is certainly too soon to formulate opinions on it, but seemed to me like a way of reading that can have an influence not just on texts interpretations, but on metods of teaching to.The multiculturally and multidisciplinarity idea should be at the basis of a subject like the right, that usually tends towards regulate every social living aspect.
See you tomorrow,and goodnight!
Hi! Good night!
This afternoon I have the confirmation that I will be very interested in this course, we have the possibility to learn and speak directly not only with our professor but also with some experts of law that come from others countries.
The professor Skeels today was very nice and available with students; he answered questions and particularly I liked the discussion that born when someone asked him the relation between law and literature; this was an example to how new themes can be introduced even by the students. He illustrated us the object of the course in a very clear way with slides, but I hope that we can have before the material so we don’t have to write and we can be more concentrated during the lesson.
I think that this course is good for an international approach in the study of “legal science” and for the connection with others subjects like literature ,sociology ,economics and it is very important for our general knowledge and to open our mind to others systems in a international contest and in a comparative prospective.
A.Colorizio
Hi everybody!
I really enjoyed this new experience. I liked very much the introduction to the course that prof.Conte and prof.Skeel have done.
The most important thing I appreciate was the possibility, within this course, to know a different aspect of Law, communicating with literature and other arts. It can be a way to discover another way to study Law, totally different from the "classical" method generally used in a Law Italian School.
I hope I'll be able to follow with attention the entire course.
Thanks!
See you to the next lesson!
F.Sangregorio
Hi everybody!
I'm really happy that you think the course interesting and, reading your comments, I have the impression that you really understood what this is all about: to understand the law, we have to look at it from as many different points of view as possible. Comparisons, discussions, even controversies are fundamental to understand how many different interpretations are possible and how careful we have to be in handle this powerful mean! It was really a good start so...just keep on like that!
About Ginevra Casini question. First of all: there are no stupid questions!!! You can ask directly Prof. Skeel, who will be absolutely happy to answer you. Unfortunately I wasn't there to hear his lecture and that's why I can only guess what he was exactly talking about. I will answer with another question: when Prof. Skeel spoke of a judicial opinion as a poem for the entire country, are you sure he wasn't talking about the Supreme Court of the USA? It is a federal state but constitution and Supreme Court are one for the entire country for sure!
Hi everybody!
With great enthusiasm I followed Professor Skeel's first and second lessons.Trying to envolve the audience due a diverse way of lecturing,blending law and litterature into a one topic, is new and interesting for italian students! In today's lesson I was attracted by the litteraly style in which Blackmun pronunced his judicial opinion.As was said by Prof.Conte,Italian laws and judicial opinions should be expressed in a different style!
See you tomorrow!
Massimo M.
I'm very satisfied about Prof. Conte's course; I think that's very interesting the connection between law and humanities and the topics are very well explained. Today we talked about law and literature, and as asked by Prof. Conte, I've found an italian literature author who took many topics about law. He is Italo Svevo and his book is "La coscienza di zeno", in which he writes about marriages without love, difficult family situations and adultery. These arguments are actually discussed also in Family Law
hello to everyone !
Yesterday was the first lesson and I like so much what professor Skeel said about the connection between literature and law in America and I'm so curius to know everything about how the law works in the USA sistem .
I think that this course is good for an international approach in the study of law and it is very important to open our mind to others systems .
Good bye see you tomorrow
Hi everyone,
first of all I want to thank Prof. Conte for organizing this interesting and international course and bringing us some "fresh air", then Prof Skeel for spending two whole weeks with us and giving us an overseas view of law.
Yesterday Prof. Conte suggested us a research to find out if any italian or french writer in the XIX century had a critical approach towards contemporary society in his writings.
From my research I think I picked out Honorè de Balzac and his 'Comédie Humaine'. In his masterpiece the french author, with a massive work composed of more than one hundred stories, outlines different characters of French society of the first half of XIX century.
Often his stories regard lower classes and typical figures both from the city and from the countryside, and his stories remark the contradictions of French society at that time and the unease of lower classes.
Even though I haven't read his work, I think Honore de Blazac could be one of the writers that Prof. Conte was referring to.
Pietro Giuliani
Matr. 289309
pietro628@hotmail.com
hey there!
I partecipated to the first three lessons of the course, so now I'm able to say that they've been very interesting,
specially for the "english method" of teaching which is really different than our usual way.
Also the idea of posting comment in this blog belong to me can improve my active partecipation to this course.
I'm sure that, after this course, I will be able to understand law in every aspect!
see you soon...
Pierluigi Oddone
253046
Hi everybody!
Today I really appreciated the discussion about the Benetton story by Patricia Williams. The connection and contradiction between Benetton's advertising campaign and the way the man at the door answered to P.W. has been a great starting point for interesting discussions!
See u next week
Hey there!
Today we've spoken about how the law can be part of a book.
Actually there are many examples coming from our classic and modern literature, but I'd like to mention a collection of wills called "Essendo capace di intendere e di volere", published by Sellerio.
It's a bitter sweet reading that shows a lot of the human ways to face death,from the tragedy to the comedy.
I really recommend this book!
Have a nice week-end.
G.C.
Hi everybody!
In my opinion the theme of the contrast between Law and Economics' schoolars and the Law and Literature movement.
I agree with Robin West when (in her first article published in 1985) she contests free choice as principal virtue of "Economic Man" and tries to find the benefits of literature as empathy.
Valerio Marinelli
valeriomarinelli2008@gmail.com
Good evening to all of my friends.
I take this opportunity to imitate the idea of Genevra by quoting new books on order to give you my advice.
It's called "The Justice Game" and it is written by Geoffrey Robertson.
This is a lucid discussion of the last 30-40 years with analytical and critical judicial speech.
I bought this book while I was walking through the lane dedicated to the legal section of a bookstore in London and this book has intrigued me.
Hope you'll enjoy it
Have a nice week end my friends
A.Festucci
Good evening!
At the end of the first week I have to congratulate with prof. Conte and prof. Skeel, this course is very interesting and I agree with all the reasons explained by my colleagues.
Especially , I am interested in studing a new way to know better law.
In class today i was very impressed about William's Benetton story, because the race discrimination is a frequent theme in literature, for example Capote and Lee Harper wrote about white and black people, and there is a link because very often writers have denounced some social and cultural situations that later have let the law arise from...
See you wednesday!
Silvia Faranca
Hi everyone!
At the end of the week I can say that this course is very interesting,original and amusing too.
I find it original because the essays we speak about during the lessons consent us to make a link between law, philosophy, sociology and literature and it's very different from italian system of concerning law.
In particular I like much the idea of literature like a way to help lawyers to understand society(I think is very important for a lawyer take care of others and be empathic)
Finally I can say that I agree with Robin West when she said that" economic man doesn't care about anybody apart himself".
I want to thank Prof. Conte for the course and Prof. Skeel for his availability.
See you Wednesday.
Giorgia Melia
Good evening!
I agree with my mates' opinions. I think that the "law and humanities" course can be a very interesting experience, surely a new experience in our studies. Until now i've studied law only in conventional ways, without focusing on a very strange, but at the same time very natural, link between law and humanities. This link sounds strange because maybe we are not accustomed to study law exploring its humanistic side. The practical side of law is the only one that mattered until now, so this is a new point of view for me. My opinion is that we can know a thing only considering all its applications, and this course will give us the possibility to know law in a humanistic way.
I appreciated the first week and the three class about the strands of law-and-literature, and i think that even the following classes will be as interesting as possible.
See you soon!
Andrea Severini
Hello everybody,
I find this course really interesting and mostly I’ m attending it with a deep curiosity. I’m fascinated by the possibility to take part to lectures which analyze the law by points of view that are in touch with different subjects thus different from those points of view commonly used. It’s interesting to notice how, in an assigned historical period, strong affiliations between the law and other subjects, as the literature and the sociology, can be constituted and than, later, to see them slowly becoming attenuate.
It has been a great idea to base these three first lectures on the works of authors to explain different approaches to the law and literature. Moreover I’ m agree with my colleagues in emphasizing the innovation of the development of the course, interactive lectures in which students are not only simple spectators but in which they can actively take part to the discussions. I’ m fascinated by the figure of Filippo Vassalli, he was not only a great lawyer who coordinated the writing of the Civil Code but also a great philosopher and sociologist.
See you all in class for the next lecture!
Riccardo Varano
Hi everybody,
I think that this course is an innovation in the Law faculty, because it's very particular to compare law to literature and to the other humanistic arts. I like the possibility to share my opion with the mates: through this blog i can collect a lot of interesting points of view.
I was striked by the case of the Benetton story, that talks about the very important problem of discrimination. The story is narrated by Patricia Williams in first person, as a storytelling. This particular style allows us to feel the author's sensations, and in this case feelings surely are the central theme. Using first person, Patricia Williams lets us live the episode with her. This can be a very comunicative method. Maybe one of the critiques moved to this strand, i.e. the impossibility to certify the verdicity of the story, can be true; but i think that a similar critique doesn't affect on the qualities of the Law-as-storyrelling strand.
See you soon!
Vanessa Malizia
Hi everybody!First of all I would like to thank professor Conte for giving us the chance to take this course, so different from courses we usually attend to in this law university.
My personal reflections on prof. David Skeel's lessons are:
1) I found some similarities between Langdell's thought and what happened in Germany at the end of 19th Century and the beginning of 20th Centuty.
As Langdell apired to create "Legal Science" to distill principles of each area of law to apply to particular disputes, also law movement known as "Pandettistica" claimed that law is a world apart and free from any social instance.
Both of them had a formal, strict consideration of law and a casistic and professoral method what took, as in America as in Europe, to a reaction.
In my opinion, too rigid consideration of law often have taken to strong reactions, expecially in social changes times.
The dichotomy between law and what-is-not-law (literature, economy...)is always in change.
2)About law-and-literature. I think that both law and literature are something that come after social problems: they both describe social phenomena as the author (or the legislator) sees them, and as he would them to be.
As a novel could end in many ways, a judicial opinion could have a majority or a dissentig opinion.
In this way, it could be an osmosis between law and literature: a novel can put the attention of the legislator on some social problems that are not legalized yet, or talk about some legal things.
For example, John Grisham (who's studied law) and his novel "the jury" which talk about a trial of a wife of a man killed by cancer against cigarettes companies. John Grisham take the chance to describe american legal system.
Bye, see you on wensday
My analysis on the Benetton story cannot begin without a fundamental premise: the message transmitted by the author is very important because it focuses our attention on the values of equality and respect that should be principals of human kind. I’ve had the impression to perceive today’s America reflected in the story. Like Benetton, in fact, the USA have made their force out of multiculturalism and the election of president Barack Obama stands out as an evidence of this historical all-american path toward a multicultural society.
Still, if the story is carefully analyzed, other deeper contradictions emerge out of this path toward multicultural society and its ideal values.
The point is, can values of equality really be a fundamental part of human kind’s culture and expecially of american culture by being really interiorized by each individual, or are they still part of an unreacheble and modern utopia?
Are stories like the one we analyzed instruments to educate people toward such ideal?
For example, some characteristics of the story seem to be narrated on purpose, in order to make the message touching and pathetic, in a perfect “american way”. Particularly the story, rich of pathos (for example it takes place during Christmas eve) seems to attract the readers to feel simpathetic with what happens; the style of the narration seems to me skillfully studied in order to convince the reader in a demagogical and rhetorical way, more than in a spontaneous way, of waht the rel message is . I think that the Storytelling is in a powerful, direct and incisive style, able to affect people’s consciuousness in a strong way and has to be used carefully.
The point is not objecting against the diffusion of a positive message like this one, a message which represent an absolute value, but I think that as an approach to such an important and necessary theme should we verify the reliability of the facts narrated, which should not be a simple strumentalization and construction of the past.
Hi!
My point of view on the Benetton story.
The story raise a question: is discrimination a current problem?
I’ve just realized the Martin Luter king’s dream: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" It’s not a big deal if Benetton story is true, because there are some other examples that sustain it. We give evidence about ku kux klan. They attacked and intimidated black man, and suppress black voting, with violence. American newspaper reported weekly assaults and murders of blacks. It was in 1865. Today we speak about it over and over again.
I don’t know if Obama’s election is an answer to a problem; it’s a step forward, surely. Becouse for the first time american’s prove that king’s dream isn’t only a rhetoric argument.
See you soon!
Daniela D'annibale
About E. Pesci comment: if you want to attend the course you have to register. It is important also to receive the readings so...write me in an email (stefaniagialdroni@gmail.com)!
For ANDREA who wrote on Pandectistic & Grisham on March 14th: please remember to write your surname next time! Can you write me an email so that I can be sure which Andrea you are? Did you write also the two previous comments signed Andrea? You wrote a lot of interesting stuff, it is a pity that I'm not sure who you are!
Same thing for VALERIAFERRI...are you registered? Did you receive the readings? Write me an email and sign your comments, it is important especially for you!
Prof.Conte said us to find an Italian or French author who discussed about law and political questions.
Georges Bensoussan is a French journalist who has written this year:” A European passion”, marsilio 2009. The book tells about genocide of the Hebrews and analyzes the years from 1880 to 1914, the period just before the first world war .This because he wants to understand what happened in the human mind because someone could think to be superior than others. The book could be a reflection even for what happened later in the1935 with the issuing of racial laws of Norimberga .
Linked with the Hebraic persecution there is the diary of Anne Frank, Einaudi 1988. The diary, which was given to Anne on her 13th birthday, chronicles her life from 12 June 1942 until 1 August 1944. Anne and her family moved to Amsterdam in 1933 after the Nazis gained power in Germany and the book describes the life and the all the injustices that had the Hebraic in that period. It’s a really dramatic description especially for the fact that it’s a true history and the author was just a child who had no fault and she died as many thousands of people.
An Italian author is Primo Levi who wrote :”Se questo è un uomo “ and “La tregua”. In the first book he
Spoke about his terrible imprisonment in a German lager started in the 1943 when he was only twenty-four years old and only because he was Hebrew; in the second book ,written in the1963,that is the continuation of the story, is about his return journey from Auschiwtz to Torino. The last work of Levi was :”I sommersi e I salvati”,1986,he analyzes after many years his experiences in the lager and the responsibility of the various personages in the holocaust.
A.Colorizio
We can't say that Albert Camus was a journalist and a studious of law together, but only a very important existentialist author like Sartre from whom recieved huge critics at the end of their cultural relationship.
However the book I am talking about have some juridical and sociological aspect, "The foreigner" (lo straniero).
Meursault, a modest employee who lives in Algiers in a state of indifference, extraneous to himself and the world. One day, after a quarrel, for no reason, inexplicably Meursault kills an Arab.
Was arrested and is delivery, totally impassive, the inevitable consequences of the act, the trial and sentencing to death, without seeking justifications, defenses, or lies. Like Sisyphus, Meursault is a hero "absurd": his lucid consciousness of reality allows him to reach a logical extreme through to the truth of being and feeling.
Norberto Bobbio (Turin, October 18 1909 - Turin, 9 January 2004) was a philosopher, historian and political scientist Italian.
His work concentrates mainly on the italian political science.
During the last years of fascism, Bobbio couple the need for a democratic state, which clear up the danger of political and ideological totalitarian ideologies of both right and left, is a management invokes secular politics, is a philosophical approach cultural policy, which helps to overcome the opposition between capitalism and communism and to promote freedom and justice.
In his essay What is socialism? (1976), Bobbio critical Marxist dialectic is both the objectives of the revolutionary movements, arguing that the achievements of the middle class, were also extended to the class of proletarians. Bobbio believes the experience bankruptcy only Marxist-Leninist, and provides that the demands of justice, claimed by Marxist theory may, in future, kicks in the political landscape.
Bobbio's thought becomes, especially among the intellectuals of the socialist, a model, with its' commitment to know ', certainly' more trouble to sow doubts that gather consensus. He will resume the debate on an issue dear to him, the relationship between politics and culture, by proposing, among the pages of MondOperaio, a 'relative autonomy of culture than in politics "that" culture can not and must not be reduced fully to the political sphere. "
In 1994, the work comes out right and left, which focuses Bobbio differences between the two ideologies and the two addresses political and social, his right hand, according to the author, is characterized by trends of inequality, the conservatism and is inspired by the interest, while the left is pursuing equality, transformation, and is driven by ideals.
In the Age of Human Rights (1990), Bobbio identifies the fundamental rights that enable the development of a real democracy and a just and lasting peace. A collective and not the coercive decisions, a contracting party, the enlargement of the democratic model to the whole world, the brotherhood among men, respect for opponents, alternating with the help of violence, a series of Liberals conditions, are indicated by Bobbio as a cornerstone of democracy, but that bad, it is preferable to a dictatorship.
A.Festucci
Hi everybody!
I want to explain my first impression about the lessons of Law and Humanities course:
i think this course is very interesting and useful;
it allows to get a different approach to the study of law, a different approach from traditional one, but also fascinating.
Farther it allows to improve our english knowledge!
See you soon.
E. Veri
I wish to make a short comment about tomorrow's lecture.
Today we've talked about the relevance that The Merchant of Venice into a Law and Literature contest has.
There are so many legal aspects inside the play.
Our Prof. D.Skeel gave a premise on what the of tomorrow lecture is going to be..
He talked about the third strand, which is a question:
"What can lawyers teach literature scholars and other readers?"
Well, there is a possible answer to this question.
Portia rapresents justice. She has interpreted the law of contract in a very strict way, according to the rule of not injure or cause harm to someone, when she explicitly told the court that although Shylock was right in demanding a pound of flesh of Antonio, she have however said that was reported only on the pound of flesh and nothing else.
If Shylock had dropped just one drop of Antonio's blood, his property would be confiscate.
You can teach scholars of literature a number of things:
1) Which law was in force at the time the work was written, with special reference to contract law in Venice;
2) What kind of constraints had obligations in that period;
3) What were the links between civil law and criminal law;
4) What influence had the judgments and decisions of the court in the historical period which is set in The Merchant of Venice;
5) When (in relation to point 2) is the correct interpretation of the law on obligations issued by Portia;
6) What are the differences between the law of contract at the time of the Merchant of Venice, and today, with reference to the Italian private law of civil law, and the Anglo-Saxon system of common law, ie a comparison between the two main legal systems.
A.Festucci
Today it has been the second week of lesson and it is getting more interesting.
Prof. Skeel asked if we know about some italian book that speaks about people financiarly ruined.
The only book that cames on my mind is "La Casta".
It's not properly a book about law; it speaks about how many many politician men in Italy had the nerve to steal from people, and how the State made them do that.
I think that's the story about the finalcial ruine of an entire country...
Best regards
G.C.
About Alessandro Festucci's comment: Your questions are all very interesting and proper. I can tell you that we are going to talk a lot about "The Merchant of Venice" as it will be the subject of my three lessons in April. I think it very interesting to try to understand if contract law in Venice, in that period, allowed Shylock to ask for "a pound of flash" but, the point is: How could Shakespeare know Venetian law so well? Was he referring to a real existing law or was he just inventing? Does it really matter if a law of that kind existed or not? Don't you think that even if the law of that time didn't allow such a request Shakespeare gives us the opportunity to reflect about law and its limits? In this case: liberty of contract and its limits? I think that this is the very point of law and literature: even if writers often don't have a technical knowledge of law they can help lawyers to think about what is law, what influences the judges decisions, how a too strict application of the law, without any reference to concepts like equity or public policy, can sometimes, yesterday and today, bring the judges to a "wrong" decision. Or is the reference to this kind of concepts against one of the conquests of contemporary legal systems: the rule of law?
Hey there!
After the end of lesson's I have started to think about the fact if the MOV can or cannot be considered as an antisemitic opera. Apart from the majority of historians and critics that tried to label the MOV as antisemitic or not, I tried to enucleate what I really think and what I really felt after reading the book.
There is one particular preposition that really interested me and that gave me a real sign of Shakespeare's aim: In the third scene of the first act Shylok says "For sufferance is the badge of all our tribe"....If even badly described and bitterly created, the character of Shilock suddenly gains dignity,abruptly refers to something that it's not money but history, astonishingly becames human.
I feel like I wanna stress this point cause those words I think are keywords in the character's analisys and at the same time give us the impression that Shylok is not only a bitter preserver of his money interests, is not just a lucid analyst of tax interests, but moreover is a rapresentantive of his dynasty, of his culture and his history. In his person flow together other people, what he is right now is the reflect of what all the other people were. He is a rapresentative of his jewish story and of the all the other jewish stories that anticipated him. He is one but it's everyone at the same time.If it's true that compassion not only means a bad feeling but can even be considered with the latin significance, Cum-patire,feel together, so it's trou that I felt a sense of compassion towards Shylok, because I emphatized him and I comprehended his background.
I think this could be a good point in the character's anaylis.
See you tomorrow!
E.Hernandez
Well done Emanuela, but I can assure you that the play hasn't always been interpreted like that. And, if we accept your point of view, how can we explain that Portia represents "justice" as Alessandro said on the blog, which is certainly right, as she was very often described and represented as the justice (see the tarot in the first page of the blog). Anyway, I personally totally agree with you, but we will have time to talk about that. In the meanwhile, I would like you all to have a look at the famous "Hath not a Jew eyes" speech and the interpretation of good old Orson Welles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa1IZ7ewdOw
Or the wonderful Al Pacino: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmafewX-HCw
It is incredible: I can't find it in English.
Enjoy!
Well...this is exactly the point, I don't think that Porcia represents Justice in an absolute way for many reasons.
First of all, knowing the human body, we all know it's basically impossible to cut a piece of meat without bleed. So once accepted this point, the only case in wich wouldn't have been impossible to affix this objet, would have been the case in wich the condition was impossible, so clearly mention that "without blood" that not necessarely means "libra precisa".
I have more difficults to analyze the second point, the fact to attempt on someone else life,the second element that Porcia uses to eliminate Shylok's demands, even if I think cut a "libra di carne"(I don't how can I say it in english!) doesn't necessarely mean to attempt directly or indirectly on someonelse life. And if really would mean to attempt on someone life(Shylok), it would mean to attemp on a life with the consensus(Antonio). And maybe this fact would let to different consequences..
..But I think we will talk about that!
Goodnight everybody!
E, Hernandez
Hi!
Yesterday prof Skeel introduced us merchant of Venice. In particular I want run apon on the paradox about money vs love in Shylock.
In the act 3,sc 1 links the sorrow for jessica’s running away whit the desire to retaliate against Antonio, accused to “laughed at his losses” only because Jewish. I think that the monologue of Shylock, reclaiming his religious culture, emphasizes feel of revenge of the speaker. His religion become the support for fortify his position against Antonio….like if the offence of his Jewish nationality, is an aggravation on Antonio’s debt. Only another motivation for propitiate his anger. Just the theoretical Antonio’s disgrace can put on middle distance the elopement of his daughter.
The venality of the protagonist become visible once more,when Shylock quantifies the grief for Jessica’s escape with the jewels that she detract to his father…he says “I would my daughter were dead at my foot” for this grand theft …. In this case the pain will be placate with the satisfaction of proximate humiliation of Antonio, too.
See you later!|
I would like to respond S. Gialdroni’s message.
What you say is interesting and in fact it made me think about it.
We could talk about the limits of the strict interpretation of law. But Portia does not only represent a legal justice.
She represents that humanity and mercy, that no one other judge could give us if respects the law.
A right person (not only a person of justice) is able to understand the reasons from everybody by listening like Portia.
Yesterday I thought about something like that: she represents the analytic sensibility which is common among woman’s nature, and today it has been conformed by Prof. Skeel. She explains to the court the opinions of Shylock, first: She tells she understands the reasons of him, who (act 3°, as you quote) has just defended himself by explaining that everyone is equal. That nobody can take our freedom. That everyone can fall in love, whatever if Jew, Christian, Muslim. But Portia is more. She “blocks” the obligation by saying that this could not have hurt Antonio to death, which was laid down by another law. This represents both the soul of pity, and the keeping in life of a person.
Well, I do not remember about Italian obligation law, but I do not think at all that the obligations (I quote asking for “a pound of flash”) should be allowed if they cause physical diseases or death. And I think that this principle has been explained by Shakespeare. Or maybe what he wants to say to people is that justice should bring civilization and prosperity, no suffering or pain.
This principle is sometimes dismissed because these suffering are given by the mistakes or limitations of the law, as you said.
Furthermore Shakespeare wants us to understand that even though she has a better legal knowledge than any other lawyer, but she could never be, if not under the appearance of a man, as for many centuries, the woman has never been able to express its real value because of men. This shows that Shakespeare proves, however, including in respect of a category of people who are excluded from important decisions, such as women. Should it be a feminist plot?
A.Festucci
Hi everybody,
I'm sorry for posting my first comment just right now, but I needed time to "recollect emotions in tranquillity"(before writing something, Wordsworth's words always obsess me!)generally about this course, and particularly about our first two weeks on law and literature...
First of all (and this isn't a sort of "captatio benevolentiae") I needed this course before leaving university, as I've always believed that a good law student should at the same time challenge with different subjects, trying to understand how best read and interpretate law and our lessons represent the evidence of it.
A good lawyer should never forget (but it's just my opinion) the historical, social, political background in which he "acts"(unfortunately there are too many examples of this kind of behaviour), otherwise he wouldn't be able to choose between a strict, but unfair, interpretation of the rule and another, which best fits and seems to be fair, but at the same time "creative" (otherwise jurisprudence would have never changed and rules would have been the same of roman times!)
As lawyer and judges play an important role in the society, they can't believe they're allowed to go straight on their direction. They help people to obtain Justice through law: under and over the solution of a case there is a person or more than just one.
So these lessons are a wonderful way to remind us why we're studyng law and maybe can also help us to find a different perspective of studying it, trying to test ourselves together.
See you next week
Camilla
Hello everybody,
today's lesson opened witha an Oscar Wilde sentence.
While we were talking about Richard the Second, we focused on one of the key word of the palty: "flattering".
Wilde had his opinion about flattering too: he said that who loves to be flattered is even worste than who flatters.
I completely agree with O. Wilde (although is not that difficult to agree with him...) but I think that flattering is an unforgivable sin, one of the ugliest weakness.
I've been waiting to post a comment for I wanted to have an idea of the teaching path; the end is that the prof mede me feel like knowing more about English monarchy and it's history.
Now I'm wondering what's next, because I'm very interest to the lessons we're attending.
have a nice friday night!
G.C.
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